BeBits - nVidia TNT/GF 3D driver - Talkback

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nVidia TNT/GF 3D driver

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By Euan - Posted on August 13, 2005 - 21:32:04 (#17464)
Current version when comment was posted: Alpha 3

So, shall we be playing Quake 3 next week when the source is GPL'd? ;)

By kraton. - Posted on August 8, 2005 - 20:41:30 (#17446)
Current version when comment was posted: Alpha 3

Dont know why but my P3 Celeron system with Zeta and TNT2 M64 card will not work...

.. with R5 it was running with the last version and I am sure it will with the new version.

I tried many options in the nv.settings file without success. Dont know. Zeta is very different from R5 and Dano which I tested too some time ago. I installed both the 2d and the 3d driver but I cannot boot Zeta anymore. I only got an distorted pic. With some tweking in the nv. settings I get a black screen now but without further booting. Very weird Zeta is no fun for testing alpha versions...

GLUerrorstring

By Rafael K - Posted on August 6, 2005 - 10:13:55 (#17413)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi Rudolf
thx for your answer and for your great work

2D driver doing double refresh on 6200???

By rudolfc - Posted on August 5, 2005 - 18:12:26 (#17411)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi,

Your comment should be at the 2D driver page I'd say. Anyway, I would be interested in receiving a logfile from you via Email (look at the driver's homepage, contact info).

It would seem the PLL differs and gets programmed incorrect. Do all refreshrates double for you? (try some custom ones or so?)

Thanks!

Rudolf.

switching 3D driverversions (R5 versus Zeta)

By rudolfc - Posted on August 5, 2005 - 18:08:56 (#17410)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Only the 3D driver has to be replaced, the 2D driver is the same build.

I have to admit I don't even know why I had to recompile the 3D driver for both systems: if I look at Philip Houdoin's comments on his Mesa page on bebits, that shouldn't even be nessesary.

Anyway, not my main concern ATM ;-)

Bye!

Rudolf.

GLUerrorstring not in Mesa 3.2.1, but there in 3.4.2

By rudolfc - Posted on August 5, 2005 - 18:06:48 (#17409)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi RafaelK,

Sorry for the (much delay).. :-/
Anyway, I finally looked it up in the sourcecode: it's not there in Mesa3.2.1.
Mesa 3.4.2 does have it though (also openGL 1.2, but extended more, and probably better conformaty to openGL).

On a sidenote I can now tell you the driver runs on Mesa3.4.2 over here now: even Quake1 rendering is OK now. Mesa3.4.2 is a bit slower though: Q2 at max 106fps instead of those 119 reported for 3.2.1.

Apart from a Z-buffer problem with Q2 in 32bit mode the driver seems at the same level as it is on the older Mesa version. So if I can locate this Z-buffer error I might publish it here.

People wanting to 'betatest' Mesa 3.4.2 are welcome to do so: just let me know, I'll mail it to you.

---------

In the meantime I am working on upgrading to Mesa 6.2.1: half the driverfiles compile now on that version. The switch from Mesa 3.4.2 to 6.2.1 is much harder to do than doing 3.2.1 to 3.4.2, as the Mesa internals were largely revamped between version 3.4.2 and 3.5 (since 3.5 the 'normal' smaller changes were done until now).

OK, that's it for now. Hope it helps a bit :-)

Best regards,

Rudolf (and sorry for the delay again..)

double refresh rate

By memecode - Posted on August 1, 2005 - 16:02:45 (#17368)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Just trying the latest build of this driver on Zeta 1.0 and I get twice the refresh rate I specify in the screen options.

For instance when I set 1024 x 768 @ 56hz my monitor informs me it's getting signal at 112hz (twice 56hz).

I have a brand new Xpertvision NVidia 6200 AGP, 1.4ghz Athlon.

By kraton. - Posted on August 1, 2005 - 14:01:56 (#17366)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Now I have Zeta 1.0 too, and I would like to test the 3d Graphics Driver...

I just remember what troubles one have if you make a mistake. So I just want to ask what to install.

Do I have to install only the TNT/GF 3D driver...
or do I have to install the HAIKU NVIDIA driver as well.

Just to te sure so I dont run in troubles...

gluErrorString

By Rafael K - Posted on July 8, 2005 - 13:11:37 (#17136)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

maybe this is stupid,
libGL doesn't include gluErrorString, but I thought it's in Mesa 3.2.1

By rayman - Posted on July 6, 2005 - 08:55:29 (#17116)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

A big advance for BeOS !!
I have a GeForce4 ( MX440 - 8x ) on PC with P4 2,8Ghz.
The GLteapot and BillardGL works fine. But with GLteapot , I have a trouble, when you elarge window. The GLteapot is not "Big", but duplicate at right with a same size.

Thank.

Rayman.

BeOS quake II clan website

By BeOS Mr X - Posted on June 30, 2005 - 08:30:48 (#17061)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

I've updated my BeOS quake II clan website for the brightness issues with quake II encore, as I have new improvements and my benchmarks you can see on the site also.
If you like to play quake II and love BeOS, then join the BeOS quake II clan.
http://beq2.beworld.info/hardware_accel_on_beos.html
http://beq2.beworld.info/currentbenchmarks.html

Mr X

By rudolfc - Posted on June 26, 2005 - 20:18:49 (#17024)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi once more,

Can you please state exactly what Linux you were using, which version, which version closed source nvidia driver?
Exactly what from the Xscreensaver was in use?

---

I just tried to get the FX5200 and FX5200Go working by pre-bootinh into windows, but that doesn't work at all.

ATM I am making room for a Linux install, I think I'll try Suse 7.1 which I still have laying around here, as nVidia states that this version should be compatibel to their 1.0-4496 driver.
Any thoughts?

Thanks for any additional info you might have.. :-)

Rudolf.

By rudolfc - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 23:34:21 (#16996)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi Jess,

Glad you got it solved. Indeed, now you mention it I saw that behaviour once as well, but I tend to never switch back to software rendering mode so I don't encounter it much..

I guess it has to do with the modeswitching problem I talked about. I plan to have a decent look when we have switched up to Mesa6.2.1.

About the dark screen: Maybe checkout Mr.X 's info. He wrote in the talkback below (or was it the 2D driver's talkback) what you can do to increase the brightness contrast: it seems the Q2 command line supports a lot of openGL related commands for tweaks.

My analog screen is also too dark: I usually set it to about highest contrast/brightness settings to be able to play. :-)

Hope this helps.

Thanks again for your feedback!

Rudolf.

By Jess - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 23:22:18 (#16995)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

At present the 640x480 doesn't work, it gives me the tiled screen & I can't really tell where anything is. I however just tried to take a screen shot & it didn't work, however I set quake to openGL & quit the program, I started it again with it already set to openGL & it worked. Seems the change from software to Gl makes it a tad wonky. I still can't play it sadly though, my monitor on that machine is a piece of crap & is WAY too dark. Either way that's awsome & thanks for your work.

corruption..

By rudolfc - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 21:27:23 (#16993)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi,

I was just making sure all the 'tricks' were known ;-)
I hope that 640x480 mode works OK then?

Anyway, if not: I don't know why that is happening.

Repeating patters was expected BTW: I should limit the driver from rendering outside the buffer's size. I'll add that in a future release: you will see white space there then (just like it is with the software libs).

Thanks BTW for the compliment you made earlier :-)

Best regards,

Rudolf.

Quake Corruption

By Jess - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 19:29:24 (#16991)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hey,
just wanted to drop a note about what you said. I only tried switching resoultions to see if the screen would be fixed, however I run the game in a 640x480 workspace & play the game at 640x480. My old machine had a hell of a time making Q2 playable even at 640x480 full screen but the idea was to drop my res so I could still see what was being done when the game ran at such a low res as opposed to a tiny 320x240 window on a 1024x768 desktop.

So ya I run q2 @ 640x480 on a 640x480 desktop. Even that really ran wicked poor in software rendering.

cards NV20 (GF3) and higher (4Ti, FX, etc)

By rudolfc - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 10:30:21 (#16988)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi,

On most of those cards the driver will not work. On some it might when you warmstart via Linux or Windows. (see a post below about FX5200).

The normal thing to happen is the engine will crash. If that happens, the driver will abort trying to draw using the engine, instead of completely hang your desktop. The visible evidence of this is a few seconds delay, followed by incomplete drawing. Missing window borders is one of the things you'll see in this case.

The FX5700 user experienced this.

To overcome this, you can either reboot, or switch to another workspace (with different settings). The driver will re-init the engine then and everything is back to normal. Make sure you quit the 3D app though via the Deskbar.

Rudolf.

corruption quake2

By rudolfc - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 10:25:54 (#16987)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi,

Apart from the issue mentioned in my previous post, you have to be aware of the fact that the 3D driver can't switch resolutions of buffers yet (due to a Mesa 3.2.x internal problem I think).

This means you have to set Q2 to the same resolution as your desktop is in for it to work correctly.
I realize it's sometimes tricky to get that done, as Q2 might not show you anything readable at all. Maybe it's best in such a case to first set your desktop to the last used resolution for Q2, or a bit higher, and then first switch back Q2, quit, and reset the desktop resolution to the same just set in Q2.

Then restart the game and you should be fine.

Rudolf.

corruption 1024x768x32

By rudolfc - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 10:22:29 (#16986)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi,

I saw that here with a TNT1 PCI only. Apparantly the engine can't fetch data from RAM quick enough then. (bandwidth).

If you have a TNT2-M64, you could try to enable coldstarting and see if it's OK then (only for this card I have a bit special code to optimize bandwidth if coldstarted).

Rudolf.

By kraton. - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 09:50:08 (#16985)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

I just found out that I get an corrupted screen when change to 32Bit mode, in 1024x800 Resolution only.
800x600 and 640x420 ok here.

By Doh_mar - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 09:43:28 (#16983)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi Rudolf! Works great here for GL Teapot with Geforce2 Mx400. Averaging around 180 fps on a celeron 700! Will try quake 2 as soon as i can find my data files!

Keep up the great work!

Working to a degree cool none the less

By Jess - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 02:40:49 (#16979)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hey, got this working but there are a few issues. Seems all the 3D apps tile themselves, Quake 2 tiles but won't center on the screen so it's rendering like 4 screens worth & displaying a little of each. Some odd corruption in menus now & then if I up the resolution or I lose menus altogether. Pretty cool either way, thanks & keep up the awsome work.

FX5700 not working

By tigerdog - Posted on June 24, 2005 - 02:31:53 (#16978)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Corrupts the display as soon as it tries to draw the window in which to run GLTeapot. Other windows (borders, tabs, etc.) are also corrupted. Card is PNY Verto FX5700 VE. OS=Dano 5.1d0 with tracker.newfs. Sorry no good news, but keep up the great work!

Even the 2D driver delivers >200FPS in 32-bit mode here, so I'm very happy!

TNT2 working

By kraton. - Posted on June 23, 2005 - 21:35:41 (#16972)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Working,here from 65 to 70 frames to 95 to 100 now.
Yes it is about 30%faster now on my 400MHz Celeron Board.

FX5200 working?!?!?!

By rudolfc - Posted on June 23, 2005 - 21:06:57 (#16971)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hi,

Yes!! That's the kind of message I was hoping for. I on purpose did not block the 2D and 3D driver from trying on newer cards if a user 'insisted' :-)

What you state is perfectly possible. That's the way I got NV18 up real good: warm rebooting between windows and BeOS!
It's VERY likely that what you describe is possible.

Please, try to get as much to the bottom of this as you think is possible. Try if you can repeat that test between coldboots. Try it with pre-booting into Windows.

Tell me all details, and I will try it here as well..

Thanks in advance!

Rudolf.

Somewhat Working Now on FX5200

By Moriarty - Posted on June 23, 2005 - 20:54:35 (#16970)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 2-final

Hey all,

I was surprised to see that I can actually load Quake II 3.20 under BeOS with OpenGL doing the rendering - however, the rendering is extremely slow - like maybe .5 FPS on average...

I grabbed the newest 2D driver and installed it - choosing the override options. I then downloaded the newest alpha2 driver and installed it, again choosing the override option. I then installed the Quake 2 binary, and started it.

Software rendering worked well on my machine - no problems there, and it looks like the FPS increased (due to use of DMA transfers I assume). I switched it to 800x600 mode fullscreen with OpenGL and it worked - the rendering speed dropped, but the HW benefits were being shown - the rendering was smooth, and the lighting effects looked wonderful...

I thought well, maybe the software is just using the original Neo OpenGL libraries, so I checked, and it appears that Ruldolf's libraries were being used by Quake II... I then ran the Neo-provided Glclock demo, and the framerate on it increased by say 30 FPS over what it was reporting previously...

Here is my current system config - P4 @ 1600 Mhz with Zeta Neo, i865 chipset, the card is configured with BIOS settings to work at AGP 8x transfer rate, I configured the driver via the nv.settings file to unhide fastwrites, and DMA mode is on...

I was told that this would not work on this system, but something has changed, and I believe it is not just due to DMA mode being enabled. I will state that prior to booting into Zeta, I was running Linux with the 'Official' Nvidia driver in use via Xscreensaver, and upon browsing BeBits with Firefox (sorry!) I saw the new updates, warm rebooted, and installed the drivers. I did a reboot then, and ran the software above. Is it possible that the Nvidia driver was utilized by the Xscreensaver program in such a way that the card was left in a certain state that survived two reboots? I know it seems unlikely, but... ;)

I am more than willing to try and get this working on FX5200+ cards - just tell me what you need, and I will do my best to try and help you out...

Thanks,

Brian

Help on Benchmarking, Brightness

By BeOS Mr X - Posted on June 21, 2005 - 02:02:31 (#16920)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

Hey I have posted on my website important information critical that all users of the TNT/GF 3D driver must see immediately.
http://beq2.beworld.info/hardware_accel_on_beos.html

Mr X

By apple7 - Posted on June 14, 2005 - 15:12:19 (#16878)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

Hi.i'm from Argentina.
recently that use the beos but seems very good, your work seems to me exelent,and thanks to make work my plate an GeForce 4 MX 440.

thanks.

Thanks for your work

By aphex - Posted on May 29, 2005 - 04:31:39 (#16745)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

I'm impressed that you've reached this far in so little time. Thanks a lot.

I managed to play quake 2 pretty smoothly on a p3 450/192mb and a TNT2 at 800x600.

OpenGL API reference

By jonas.kirilla - Posted on May 23, 2005 - 00:52:00 (#16710)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

http://www.mevis.de/~uwe/opengl/
http://www.mevis.de/~uwe/opengl/opengl.html
http://www.cevis.uni-bremen.de/~uwe/opengl/oglhtml.tar.gz

FWIW :)

By tb100 - Posted on May 22, 2005 - 21:05:44 (#16708)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

...for the reply Rudolf. Don't worry about a full response, most of my mails are out of date and I have learnt most of what I asked about by trial and error.

MESA doesn't do much in the projectM port anymore - all the texture manipulation and stuff I've moved into memcpys and things, and filters (brighten, darken, solarize) that are applied before showing the frame have been turned from strange uses of glBlendFunc to being calculated at the same time as the frame is transferred into the overlay bitmap. Anyway, it looks like I'll be able to hit max-framerate (43fps or so, how often SoundPlay supplies data) for most presets at 256x256 texsize, and >20fps for them on 512x512.

responses and status 3da ;-)

By rudolfc - Posted on May 22, 2005 - 20:42:25 (#16707)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

Hi guys,

Sorry I don't reply fast these times. I was on vacation in the past week. Also, while I _do_ have two days a week to work for BeOS in, I need to make sure I don't spend it all on Email and such: which also adds to the slow responsiveness.

While I certainly try (and keep trying) to answer every single mail I get, it will sometimes be slow. Many people are currently writing about 3D related programming and stuff, which costs even extra time to reply to.

Anyway: tb100: I did see your mail, but I couldn't find the time yet to answer it decently. A short note however at this time: You described that Mesa commands nicely, so I think I should be able to have a decent look at it in the future. Not now however, as I first need to make the Mesa6.2 switch: it makes no sense to try to add functions for Mesa3.2.

Before I switch to Mesa 6.2, I need to switch to Mesa 3.4.2 as an intermediate step: it contains both old and (partly) new driver interface functions, which makes it a nice candidate to test and learn on. Z-buffering has been drastically changed there for instance. This makes sense as I already mentioned I had to copy much Mesa code to get it to work in version 3.2.

OK: before the switch to Mesa3.4.2 even, I want to have completed the switch to DMA mode. Currently I am working hard on that: it's starting to pay off now. On a TNT2 original the teapot now spins at 360fps in 16bit color, 280fps in 32bit color.

I still have to see what other cards can (be made to) work, and there's one or two stability issues left to fix.

====

OK, that's it for now. Back to work, and sending Email asap.

Rudolf.

PS Thomas IS a nice guy, who is serious about his driver. Indeed sometimes he is slow to repond however: but it's due to reallife. Don't forget, most people work on BeOS in their spare time when they are students. After a bit of time though, most of those people get full-time jobs. And in Thomas' case: an _over_ fulltime job.

I understand though that this can be frustrating. Would be nice to have payed opensource developers on the project ;-)

Bye!

To tb100 and Sir Mik

By Tek_No - Posted on May 22, 2005 - 19:42:10 (#16706)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

To tb100: no offence taken ;)

To Tim: thx for the hint: gonna try this this evening!

Take care,
Tek_No

By Sir Mik - Posted on May 22, 2005 - 18:00:18 (#16705)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

Hi Tek_No,

there could be something else wrong here. I've e-mailed Thomas a couple of times, and mostly got a friendly reply. Sometimes my emails didn't come through though, because of him having a SPAM filter installed(or I was using an old email). Be sure to include "ATI" or "ATI-driver" in your email title, I believe his SPAM filter searched for topics like that! hope this helps!

regards,

Tim

By tb100 - Posted on May 22, 2005 - 17:05:51 (#16704)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

My first post was also more strongly worded than intended; I can see how you would be frustrated about the lack of response.

I'll change my conclusion slightly. Rudolf: more responsive than average, Thomas: less responsive than average, Community: still friendly and helpful in my experience.

No offense intended.

By Tek_No - Posted on May 22, 2005 - 15:54:00 (#16703)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

Well, maybe my posting sounded worse than I meant it to sound but maybe that's all a result of frustration: my previous laptop died a couple of months ago and I've spent evenings and nights during weeks to find myself a second-hand replacement laptop which I could afford and was 100% BeOS compatible according to the specs found on the Net.

As everything worked fine except the video part I started digging further even in the code of the driver to come to a situation where there's nothing else I can do about it (I changed the ID's to every possible other ati card etc... recompiled the driver about 150 times... still no luck)

By doing this I got a pretty good idea of what seems to be going wrong so I sent a very detailed email containing syslog output, detailed description of everything I tested so far, etc... to both Rudolf and Thomas in the hope they could help me (and many other BeOS Pavilion users - see later) with this.

Rudolf tried to help me out immediately (even when his not doing the ati driver) and answered every email I sent... I already mentioned that I know that Thomas is a very busy guy so I sent him additional emails (even proposing I would test for him as much as he wanted me to) but none of them got answered. I would have even been happy with an email telling something like "Sorry but I don't have time for this"... In professional life I'm also a very busy guy in IT but I always try to answer an email even when it's only with a reply telling that I currently may not have the time to look at something...

Then I started to post on the Yellowtab forums where I found out that there are a lot of other Pavilion users having these problems... Not a single reply from YT :( I dunno how you would start to react on all this but for me this was a feeling of frustration...

As Thomas probably doesn't have the time to further investigate problems with the driver and someone else here asked Rudolf if he could create an ati driver as well this sounded to me like a good idea as (as you already said yourself) Rudolf may be able to spend more time on this...

Is it so bad to agree with this viewpoint and try to explain why you agree with this then???

If so: no problem and I want to apologize then to Thomas :)

Take care,
Tek_No

By tb100 - Posted on May 22, 2005 - 09:50:00 (#16702)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

I think that is incredibly unfair, and ungrateful for the work Thomas has put into the driver. I think his real life situation has changed from the days when he wrote the ATI driver (and the IDE replacement), and now he has very little free time.

Rudolf manages to work on the driver solidly 2 days a week, so he can afford to answer questions for a bit of that time and still get something useful done.

If you compare Rudolf's responsiveness with pretty much any other BeOS dev, they'll come off worst. Your conclusion seems to be everyone else is bad, whereas mine would be Rudolf is good.

The problem with driver issues is they're very unrepeatable - it is incredibly difficult for the author to fix the problem without being able to reproduce it no matter how detailed the bug report.

Talking of Rudolf's responsivness: I sent you a couple of emails about a projectM port I was doing Rudolf, I don't think you got them. In short: Any chance of glCopyTexSubImage2D being accelerated? For now I'm optimising the port for 2D acceleration, using overlays and osmesa as the rendering backend. The framerates are getting acceptable now.

By Tek_No - Posted on May 21, 2005 - 11:46:40 (#16697)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

Hey Rudolf,

could be indeed a second "mission": to create the same quality driver for Ati users...

At least we would get some feedback when we're having trouble with the driver: I know that Thomas seems to be a very busy man but I never got any response to any of my questions I asked him using email...

I'm not sure if Thomas is working for YT now but I even posted a couple of times in the YT forums giving a very detailed explanation of the problems I have using the ATI driver and there's not a single response over there either :(

When I compare this with all the replies you're sending to questions on your driver...

I cannot get this: in the mean time there are several postings of people having trouble with Zeta and the Ati driver on BeOS/Zeta when using HP Pavilion X1000, ZT3000 and NX7000 series based laptops and not a single one of them gets an answer :(

I thought the BeOS community was well known for its members trying to help each other... Maybe this has changed in the mean time????

So sad...

Take care,
Tek_No

Ati driver sometime?

By OKKUFO - Posted on May 20, 2005 - 23:55:55 (#16696)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

Will u be releasing an ati version too?
That would be soooo great :D

Re: 3D acceleration

By Zakk - Posted on May 14, 2005 - 17:25:15 (#16629)
Current version when comment was posted: alpha 1-final

hi rudolf, with the new version 0.45 , the problem has gone away!
about fps: i run quake in windowed mode @ 640x480..

thanks for the driver!
bye!



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